You were born to do it….
One of the few times I went to Seminary as a teenager, I remember reading one of those quotes about our choice generation that said in the last days, Mormons would represent the best in the population. We’d have the best writers, the best artists, the best actors, we were going to be blessed with success to show the world the truth.
At the time, being an overly earnest type, I read that and thought for sure I would be included in that category. I dreamed of being an actress and thought that this quote was giving me permission to do it. Obviously that didn’t happen. I actually moved to California to give it a try, took one look around at the legion of people willing to do *anything* for a chance, and realized in a hurry that it was not going to happen for me that way. And since I haven’t been scouted off the street or introduced to some powerful casting director, it looks like it’s not going to happen any other way either.
We Mormons have a tricky relationship with foreordination. We know that at least certain prophets were called before they were born, we were aware of what we would face and came to earth anyway, Christ’s mission was outlined in front of us before any of us had a body, we get Patriarchal blessings…. and yet agency is a cornerstone of the faith as well. We don’t have a soulmate we’re trying to find, rather somebody we get along with. We are free to choose good or evil, our faith relies way more on a works based salvation than other Christian sects.
So how do these two opposing forces work together? If I was destined to be one of “the Best” like my little teenage heart so believed, did I forfeit it somewhere along the way or give up before I could claim my blessing? Or is foreordination limited to church callings? But then, weren’t Christopher Columbus and the founding Fathers foreordained? Should I spend a ton of my time trying to figure out what I’m supposed to be doing with my talents and inclinations or just settle back and focus on working out my salvation? And are those two things even separate? Is it possible to work out your salvation while ignoring your big fat earthly calling?
And while we’re on the subject… Do you feel like you’ve found your mission in life? And if so, won’t you give a map to the rest of us?
“The best” of you does not necessarily equate to having all our dreams come true. But I think it’s the process and knowing you if are accomplished and loved by the ones close to you then that is something to be proud of. But don’t give up because you think your time has passed just have faith in each moment.
Comment by Cz — October 16, 2009 @ 8:18 pm
Maybe you *are* the best, you just don’t realize what are the true criteria. And maybe just living life is the mission that matters most.
Comment by Tatiana — October 16, 2009 @ 8:21 pm
Reese,
Look who plays up that those in the last days are the best… those who live in the last days! What do you think they’re gonna say about their own generation?
We’re also conversely told that we are surrounded by the worst in the last days. Again, without specifics, both are meant to help raise our spirits, that we’re among the best facing off against the worst.
Personally I don’t see much of a difference from this generation to that generation to that generation. There are smart people all around and there are dumb people all around. There are good people all around and there are bad people all around. Exactly how is one generation judged to have the “best?”
Comment by Dan — October 16, 2009 @ 8:30 pm
I think the quality of bishops and young men presidents are much, much better now…
(And anyone who thinks the WWII generation is the Greatest Generation, as proclaims Brokaw, need only look at how terribly they raised the Boomers. We’ll take 100 years to recover from the actions of the offspring of the “Greatest Generation”, from both sides of the political aisle).
As to the central question about finding oneself, I believe it is a continually moving target with a lot of short-term aims, both professional and spiritual and familial…
Comment by queuno — October 16, 2009 @ 8:58 pm
Reese, it’s my considered opinion that pretty much every church or religious group instills expectations into those who are raised in it from early childhood which are often, at best, extremely unhealthy, and, at worst (please pardon the crude reference), absolutely mind-f***ing. I have many such holdovers from my Assembly of God childhood upbringing. You can spot them because, rather than helping to clarify your path and strengthen your step, they lead you into confusion and guilt and self-doubt.
I find that when those niggling whisps of bad childhood messages creep up on me, the best thing to do is to focus on the aspects of my life in which I find the most personal satisfaction, self-worth and happiness, and try to improve and grow in those areas, and not sweat the “expectations” of childhood.
:big-hug:
Comment by Lorian — October 16, 2009 @ 9:04 pm
Reese, I felt it too! Remember all the millennial talk? The anointing of the rising generation with their (our) eleventh-hour gifts, unique in the history of this world? Saturday’s warriors?
Hopelessly unrealistic.
I remember many LDS adults when I was a kid in the ’70s were pretty sure the millenium was coming within their lifetime. So the rising generation was supposed to usher in the Savior’s return.
Ah well. It’s hard to live up to those kinds of expectations, whether or not you’re an actress willing to… well honestly… to sleep her way to the middle.
And I think it’s not just LDS people who struggle with this kind of disillusionment. Have you heard Barbara Ehrenreich speak lately? She’s on tour for her new book, Bright-Sided: How the relentless promotion of positive thinking has undermined America.
I think Mormon culture has bought into this wider American myth: that if you wish it hard enough, it will come to pass. And that if you are unhappy, you must be living wrong.
Both of these are damnable falsehoods.
Comment by a man Zed — October 16, 2009 @ 9:31 pm
Ooh, I love Barbara Ehrenreich, Zed. I’m totally looking into that book!
Since acting was always my first love, it’s something that I’ve always been keenly aware of, and we certainly have a great tradition, so why do we have so few active working actors? In fact, I can’t think of a single active woman with a thriving mainstream career. There’s a couple of men, but to my knowledge those are all converts or reactivates. It can’t just be the loose morals of Hollywood, since the indie movie market came along. Sundance is in Utah for crying out loud, we’re making our own movies. And if Julia Roberts and Sarah Jessica Parker have been able to have long careers without nude scenes, it doesn’t seem like an utter impossibility.
But you could say the same thing across all the arts. Our Mormon Milton’s have yet to show their faces. And all our filmmakers who reach mainstream success have gotten promptly ex’ed or left of their own accord.
Anyway, I’m kind of threadjacking my own post, but I suppose I started it by asking those two questions. Where are all these great latter-day artists who were going to share the light throughout the world…
And how do I deal with the fact that I may not be one of them after hearing for so many years how dang special my generation is…
Comment by Reese Dixon — October 16, 2009 @ 9:49 pm
I, personally, suffered from “rapture panics” whenever I couldn’t locate my mother or other family members. Despite doing everything in my power to remain faithful to my church’s teachings and to immediately ask God’s forgiveness for even the most imaginary of possible sins (even when I wasn’t aware of having sinned at all, but just carried around this perpetual sense of nebulous guilt), I still was sure that I would be “left behind” to face the “tribulation period” by myself while my family would all be “caught away” in the “rapture.”
I’ve done much to shed the psychological damage of my upbringing, and yet, even still, 30 years since I left home and left my parents’ idea of God and religion behind, I still occasionally suffer “rapture panics.” And they are every bit as terrifying and paralyzing as they were when I was an 11-year-old child.
Comment by Lorian — October 16, 2009 @ 10:04 pm
Sorry, Reese, I realize my posts are a tad off-topic. I just couldn’t help but think about the expectations and trips our religious upbringings so often lay on us.
Comment by Lorian — October 16, 2009 @ 10:05 pm
Reese Dixon
You answered your own question.
–Where are all these great latter-day artists
–promptly ex’ed or left of their own accord.
Mormonism puts emphasis on group conformity and obedience (good qualities to have for migrating across the country and settling in a desert), not on individualism and autonomy.
The Mormon tabernacle choir is a large choir and it’s not noted for it’s soloists.
Comment by Suzanne Neilsen — October 16, 2009 @ 10:06 pm
Actually I do. In my patriarchal blessing it says that I have work to do in this life. I honestly think that “my work” is in adoption. I work with couples wanting to adopt and birthparents. I see miracles almost every day and am small part of bringing eternal families together. I love my job more than words can ever say. Who else talks about their jobs and tears spring to their eyes? I can see in retrospect how many things fell into place so I could be where I’m at now. And I constantly get confirmations that I’m where I’m supposed to be at the time I’m supposed to be there.
So no, I don’t have a map for everyone. But I’m glad I followed mine. And the Lord let me figure out my path on my own.
And no, I don’t believe all this “rising generation” BS.
Comment by Risa — October 16, 2009 @ 10:15 pm
Reese don’t underestimate the incredible role of being a cycle breaker AND a good mother. That is some serious hard work.
Comment by britt — October 16, 2009 @ 10:50 pm
“In fact, I can’t think of a single active woman with a thriving mainstream career.”
I knew one at one point (she was in my old ward), but I’ve heard that she has since left the church.
Comment by Kaimi — October 16, 2009 @ 10:56 pm
And all our filmmakers who reach mainstream success have gotten promptly ex’ed or left of their own accord.
ALL of them? Isn’t that a bit of an overstatement? I’m not convinced, either, that changing the world through the arts will always end up coming through mainstream channels. But that’s just a guess. Maybe we are looking in the wrong places for these people.
Reese, I tend to think that if that path didn’t flow for you, it really wasn’t your path. There will be relatively few of us who might rise to recognition in the world for what we do. But does that mean that somehow we aren’t fulfilling our mission as part of this generation who is helping prepare for the Savior’s coming?
I think there is much, much more to fulfilling the measure of our creation than a professional path. And sometimes, it won’t include that at all.
I just read a scripture in Al 48 about the people who were ‘no less serviceable’ — I think that concept can apply to most of us. There are those whose lives will get attention in the public sphere, but we can live lives that are ‘no less serviceable’ and important to God’s work. The key, imo, is to look to God for that guidance, rather than just a general statement that could never include enough specifics for us all.
Comment by m&m — October 16, 2009 @ 10:59 pm
Men get to be the best. Women get to marry and have babies.
Comment by Ann — October 16, 2009 @ 11:16 pm
[I messed up the italics above. The last two paragraphs were mine, not Barbara Ehrenreich’s.]
“In fact, I can’t think of a single active woman with a thriving mainstream career.”
You mean like, international celebrity career, like Oprah Winfrey? Or even like Marie Osmond’s was?
Well, I can think of lots of artists who are not chopped liver. The band Low — both Alan Sparhawk (guitar and vocals) and Mimi Parker (drums and vocals) are LDS and married. Dustin Lance Black, the screenwriter of Milk.
In my field, opera singing, there are some pretty famous Mormons and diaspora, like Ariel Bybee (and Loretta Bybee, I think). And isn’t Erie Mills LDS? And lots of other working singers. But those people are just known in my business, they aren’t true celebrities.
I think it’s harmful to believe in any myth of inevitable success or irresistable special-ness, whether God-ordained or not. Mormons are not transcendent above other groups. Most of us are just plugging away, maybe making a living, maybe running a household, maybe raising kids, paying taxes — doing it all for the ones we love and for a few transcendent moments.
Still and all, that’s pretty great.
Comment by a man Zed — October 16, 2009 @ 11:22 pm
Zed, opera??? I’m a Dramatic Soprano. I won’t derail here, but, how cool!
Comment by Lorian — October 16, 2009 @ 11:24 pm
Reese,
What do you mean by a mainstream career? I know an active woman who just stopped being the producer of a successful soap opera (mostly because it was cancelled). She was an actor before she became a producer.
I know an active woman who is a professional model and has been for at least twenty years.
I know a couple active women who perform (very successfully, as far as I know) on Broadway.
I’m not in the arts community (or on the west coast), so I can’t speak to the Hollywood scene. And there may well be more active members who are in acting and are successful in my old Stake whom I don’t know or am unaware of.
I have the perfect career. It’s not the music career I wanted and worked toward through high school and the beginning of college. In fact, it’s a direction I never would have imagined I wanted to go. How did I get here? A little luck, a little figuring out what I wanted, and a lot of jumping through the hoops (for about 8 years—all of that time after college) that I needed to jump through to keep this option open. Frankly, it would have been more remunerative and, at times, easier, to have dropped the path, but getting onto my current career track is the best professional thing I could have done (definitely better than being a starving musician, and probably better than being a wildly successful musician, too).
Comment by Sam B. — October 16, 2009 @ 11:25 pm
Oh there’s oodles and oodles of cultural momons who are successful, Aaron Eckhart, Eliza Dushku*, Katherine Heigel… but nobody that I know who say, attends the temple and might also show up on CSI. Well, there’s Ricky Schroder, but like I said: convert.
*I may be making some assumptions about her personal definitions. I don’t know that she has made a lifelong break or anything, but she talks about being spiritual instead of religious.
Comment by Reese Dixon — October 16, 2009 @ 11:50 pm
And I know there are loads of Mormon’s working behind the scenes. The North Hollywood wards are jam packed with editors and screenwriters and propmasters and whatnot.
But when I heard all that talk of us “being the best” it didn’t just strike me as “having opportunities to work in the arts in certain capacities.” Like I said, overly earnest, with stars in my eyes, but I imagined Oscars. Something totally like the Osmond’s at their peak.
Hey Zed - do you know Nina Warren? She’s one of my dearest friends. And I’m glad to see Michael Ballam was left off your list. Wink wink.
Comment by Reese Dixon — October 16, 2009 @ 11:55 pm
I was going to mention Glenn Beck, but I’m afraid you might hurt me…
Comment by Lorian — October 16, 2009 @ 11:56 pm
Reese,
The woman with the (former) soap opera is not behind-the-scenes–she’s the producer. She’s won multiple daytime Emmys. That doesn’t mean much to me, but she’s way more influential in her field than most actors are. But if you disqualify anybody but the people you want to count, the numbers could get really small.
Comment by Sam B. — October 17, 2009 @ 12:11 am
Oh come now Sam, let’s not get snotty. The woman with the soap opera would absolutely qualify to my rigid requirements. Daytime Emmys - That’s awesome!
The only reason I’m “disqualifying” most people behind the scenes is because I was going off of my youthful belief in all these quotes that explained we were going to be a light to the world due to our great success- and I’d think that the general public would have to be somehow aware of a person’s membership for that to be the case…and the general public isn’t typically aware of people that aren’t being handed awards.
So there we go, you found me one for the win column. But I think my point stands. There are far more inactive members in the public eye than active members. And I just wonder why.
Comment by Reese Dixon — October 17, 2009 @ 12:26 am
I’ve had questions like these. Here are a few of my thoughts:
I had thoughts like these last year. Without details, I was specifically wondering if my whole life and my purpose would be derailed if I had made a mistake somewhere along the line. Would the Lord stop giving me inspiration and impressions because I already blew it? Was that just it? The conclusion I came to is that even if we wander off the path the Lord has for us, He will work with us wherever we are at. If He has a purpose for us, and we are willing to ask and then go and do, He’ll guide us from whatever point we are at.
My mom’s Patriarchal Blessing says that her home would be filled with music. With all the chaos in our childhoods, that was never really fulfilled. The other night, I mentioned to DH that this part of my mom’s PB wasn’t fulfilled. He said, “Yes it is. Her room is under the living room [in my uncle’s house], and she is always complaining about their kids playing the piano night and day”. Well, her home is filled with music. It’s interesting how PB blessings are not always fulfilled in the way we think they will be.
I have felt since I was a child that I have a specific foreordained purpose in my life. My PB talks about it, and different individuals throughout my life have made comments to me that seem to support this. I don’t know exactly what it is - just a general idea. I feel that I’ve been distracted in the past 9 years as I’ve been having kids, but now that I am wrapping that up, I feel very excited about the future and moving on. I received some specific impressions during conference about things I need to be doing to prepare myself - that now is my time to prepare.
When I read this question, I thought of artists like Greg Olsen and Liz Lemon Swindle. A lot of non-Mormons use and appreciate their artwork. I think of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.
Comment by Stephanie — October 17, 2009 @ 12:31 am
Lorian, Oh of course, Michael Ballam! Omissions totally the fault of my faulty brain. I never heard him in his prime, but people certainly think highly of him. I sang at his company when I was starting out. But I guess he’s a star mainly in Utah, especially northern Utah.
And I know what you mean, like the Ab Fab girls say, “Names, names, NAMES, sweetie, darling.”
Nina Warren… name rings a bell! She’s sung tons of places, but I haven’t had the pleasure yet.
And my cousin is a TV producer, more LDS diaspora than anything. Not a household name by any means. But so few people are.
Comment by a man Zed — October 17, 2009 @ 12:35 am
My cousin used to be the City Manager in Provo. I always thought that kind of qualified him as a celebrity!
Comment by Lorian — October 17, 2009 @ 12:43 am
My patriarchal blessing says that I have been put on this earth for specific purposes and through prayer and scripture study, I will know what those are. I’m young and haven’t discovered them yet, but I have faith that God will show me what I’m meant to do.
Comment by skippy — October 17, 2009 @ 12:53 am
Rather than dreaming about the future, I find it more useful to apply foreordination to situations I’m already in. That’s the time I can usefully ask myself, as Mordecai asked Esther, (paraphrasing Esther 4:14 freely) if I don’t use what power I have now to do the right thing, then God will have to meet his purpose some other way. But maybe I’m here now for such a time as this.
Comment by Johnna — October 17, 2009 @ 2:41 am
Comment by Natalie K. — October 17, 2009 @ 3:13 am
Baugh. Only that first paragraph was supposed to be in quotes.
Comment by Natalie K. — October 17, 2009 @ 3:14 am
Also, just judging from the last two topics, I fully support A Man Zed joining in with our communal nuptials.
Comment by Natalie K. — October 17, 2009 @ 3:15 am
I remember Nibley wondering where the artists, poets, etc. are, they were supposed to come along after the Church was settled in.
Myself, things went bonkers for me 10 years ago, major job instability ever since I turned 40. So, how do I be a “shinning star” if I can’t stick around in my field?
In other areas, I have done some family history & environmental activism (talk about their being crooks in high places!), even though my Patriarchal blessing did not say to do those things. But, there’s something in the D&C about those who need to be commanded to do things… … some LDS feel they need an Angel to come down to tell them to do something other than the mundane.
Comment by Mike H. — October 17, 2009 @ 3:19 am
Britt, that was really sweet. :blush:
Comment by Reese Dixon — October 17, 2009 @ 3:25 am
Hey, what about the Kirby guy thats in all those Mormon movies? Doesn’t he count?
Full disclosure: I have been permanently scarred from chaperoning a 5-hour bus drive to and from youth conference where only Mormon cinema was played. Maybe it’s better not so many of us are mainstream. Yeesh.
Comment by Natalie K. — October 17, 2009 @ 3:48 am
Natalie -
Comment by Lorian — October 17, 2009 @ 3:52 am
I’m afraid that I have to agree with Lorain. Every time I think of my being part of the best generation, I feel guilty and wonder if I am doing the right thing. As long as I pray to do the right thing, I tend to not feel the guilt
Comment by Sonia — October 17, 2009 @ 9:05 am
I agree with m&m. Patriarchal blessing are supposed to be road maps of our possibilities not a statement of some predestined fate. They are statements of our possibilities.
I always thought the statement about the best being reserved for last was referring to the most valiant and willing to be faithful. We are to be a light through living an exemplary life rather than being great artists or thinkers. The question is not how many there are who live their lives in the limelight but what percentage of the total number achieve household name status as compared to the general population. Garrett Stephenson pitched for MLB until he hurt his arm. Fame is so fleeting it wouldn’t it be nicer to be remembered as a moral giant than as an academy award winner. What percentage of actors, regardless of religious affiliation actually win Oscars.
The other question that pops into my mind is how we define success. In Utah Ariel Bybee is a success although she was never a front line soloists at the Met. In Utah Jenny Oaks Baker is a life long member who is a success though in Washington was never the first violinist in the NSO.
There was a song we sang in a youth choir that was about being the best you can be. One line went, “If you can’t be a muskie then just be a bass, but be the best little bass in the lake.” I think that is what the statement about the best being a light to the world is about.
Yes I found my mission in life.
Comment by Claudia — October 17, 2009 @ 9:23 am
Reese,
I think your youthful belief was wrong. I’m sorry. I am certainly not saying that the gospel is wrong, but I think a lot of what gets fed to kids is…more than the gospel. The gospel is in there, but there is also a whole of concerned adults willing to say and encourage about anything so the kids are hopeful and happy.
I love the gospel and firmly active in the church. I also think about 80% of what I learned in Young Women’s is not true, and I would put that quote near the top of the pile.
I can’t think of a single thing about being Mormon that would facilitate Mormons to be the recognizable figures of an industry that quite frequently has as a requirement for success practices antithetical to the gospel. There are a dozen reasons why Mormons wouldn’t.
I do feel like I have found the career that, if was not “meant” for me, eminently suits me and doing it makes me happy, even when it is work. I found it by trying dozens of different things until I hit that just fit. So my advice would be to explore the world until you find yourself home.
Comment by Katie P. — October 17, 2009 @ 9:37 am
Zed and Lorian, I’ve got a wicked case of the envies. Just last night I was wishful dreaming about being in Der Rosenkavalier- and I haven’t even seen that one yet. I’m from a “She Thinks My Tractor’s Sexy” kind of town, and only discovered opera a year ago. God bless the Met in HD. Check it out people!!! And then train to be opera singers and let your light so shine…(totally on topic)
Comment by Moniker Challenged — October 17, 2009 @ 9:38 am
Advice for anyone looking for their destiny, that is.
Comment by Katie P. — October 17, 2009 @ 9:41 am
Okay, one more thought about the original quote. It’s a statement that makes the members of a religion special. Not just special - superior to others. Superior in ways that have nothing to do with being a disciple of Christ, and that makes me uncomfortable, because it makes belonging to the church more of a free pass to the elite than…all the yummy things of discipleship. I think it is an appeal to pride, and telling it to kids is a way of saying that if they leave the club, they will not only lose out on the blessings of the gospel but also on everything else good in the world.
I think it is a manipulation, and it’s an effective and popular myth. It’s right up there with “If you don’t stay in the church, your life will suck, you will die on the streets as an addict after being divorced three times.” Okay, that’s a bit extreme, but that’s the general idea. I heard something along those lines more than once, and more from peers than from leaders. It’s an appeal to ambition and desire for earthly glory, and I can’t think of a single thing said by Christ that implied that earthly power will follow discipleship of him.
Comment by Katie P. — October 17, 2009 @ 9:48 am
At this point, I’m not so sure the LDS people are producing the world’s greatest anything (well, probably the world’s greatest something, and you can fill me in on that). Any theories as to why? I really don’t know, though one factor I’m reminded of may be our relationship with pain. I’ve read a little about the role that the exploration of suffering can play in art and science (here’s the easiest to find article http://www.newsweek.com/id/107569). One function of art is to create sense out of chaos and meaning out of pain. Or maybe just acknowledge the ugliness. Is that a forte of the LDS people? Do we not feel as confused and pained as others, or are we just bad at acknowledging it when we do? Could this have an effect on our art?
Comment by Moniker Challenged — October 17, 2009 @ 9:50 am
Good question. I tend to think that we’ve overdramatized the potential of our community to be visibly successful in the world, and are, to be frank, a bit full of ourselves.
I also wonder what it says that the one field in which members of the Church have been visibly prominent is in professional athletics. On a tangentially related topic, I’ve also been very bemused in particular about the admiration and use as role models of Mormons who play professional football, whose job mostly involves going to work on the Sabbath and on Family Home Evening…
(okay, I know that’s a bit of an exaggeration–there’s lots of practices and the like. But still…)
Comment by Derek — October 17, 2009 @ 9:51 am
Living in DC, it seems to me that LDS are over-represented in the Department of Justice, FBI, CIA, and such. Mormons being good in fields that require a clean background and are all about law and order - now THAT makes sense to me.
Comment by Katie P. — October 17, 2009 @ 9:57 am
Too bad I can’t think of a successful LDS female author…you know one who rights about sparkly stalking vampires? I seriously can’t remember her name right now, but a few people do know her.
Ha stephanie Meyer…I knew laundry would job my memory
Comment by britt — October 17, 2009 @ 10:20 am
For that matter Orson Scott Card is a fabulous renowned writer.
Comment by britt — October 17, 2009 @ 10:21 am
That’s a good point about Stephanie Meyer. I can’t deny she is fabulously successful, and her Mormonness is central to that. There are a dozens of books about vampires, but it’s the one with self-restraint that apparently reverberated.
Comment by Katie P. — October 17, 2009 @ 10:25 am
re: 38 Katie said: “I do feel like I have found the career that, if was not “meant” for me, eminently suits me and doing it makes me happy, even when it is work. I found it by trying dozens of different things until I hit that just fit. So my advice would be to explore the world until you find yourself home.”
I’m glad you have found your fit. You give good advice.
Reese asks: “Do you feel like you’ve found your mission in life? ”
Perhaps because Dale Evans was the ONLY female heroine on TV when I was young, I always said I wanted to be a cowgirl when I grew up. Life intervened. Instead, careers as parent, student, businesswoman all took their appropriate primacy at different stages of my life.
Now, I step out the front door, note the herd grazing the hillside. The air is fresh, the sky is blue. Surrounding mountains embrace us and I know I am home. A cowgirl after all.
Comment by Betty Jo — October 17, 2009 @ 10:54 am
The Church’s assertions about Mormons being the best and brightest is perhaps the most unfortunate thing to come from Salt Lake ever. If anything, God would put those with the most need the closest to the truth to give them the best chances. Ethnocentric pride is one of the biggest cheats in life.
“We’ve all been raised on television to believe that one day we’d all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And we’re very, very pissed off.”
Fight Club
Comment by anon — October 17, 2009 @ 10:55 am
I have skipped reading the last half because homework awaits me this morning. But in regards to…
“I can’t think of a single active woman with a thriving mainstream career”
…a few questions.
Is this reference to only people who are in the public eye? Are we discounting those who are successful in their own local communities? How are we measuring “thriving”? Is “thriving” the same for one person as it is for another?
Thriving to me, an active single, means not having to put up with ‘his’ crap anymore. Thriving to me means my bills are paid each month, my home is peaceful and I have courage to face each day and happy to do it alone considering the alternative.
I like this discussion and will get on the homework so I can participate here. Thanks y’all
Comment by shakti — October 17, 2009 @ 11:10 am
Harry Reid, Marriot, Steve Young…we’ve quite a few olympic athletes and coaches. Ryan Millar, being a volleyball player is one of my favorites.
How about Benji and Heidi Schwimmer, or that David Archuletta (sp?)
I don’t remember ever hearing LDS people would be the best and brightest, but that we would be among the best and brightest.
Is the only way we decide successful - money? fame?
I think parents are the most powerful people on the planet.
Comment by britt — October 17, 2009 @ 11:12 am
Slightly off topic, I tend to interpret that “rising generation” quotes as “the best generation there has been yet and shall raise yet another even better generation.” It is possible that I’m taking the quotes entirely out of context, but I have to have some method of interpretation since many of the quotes frequently cited in Sunday School were directed to the youth of my grandparents’ era and even more towards my parents’ era.
Comment by jtg — October 17, 2009 @ 11:26 am
Moniker Challenged #42 - You may be onto something. I’m trying to think of the last time I heard someone use the phrase, “She’s very much like a Mormon Sylvia Plath…”
Comment by Lorian — October 17, 2009 @ 11:41 am
#51 I agree with you very much in most of your reply. I always get disgusted every time I think of the Marriots however and how they got so rich. Their early financial blooming came about largely because of the exact duplicates of the ‘Cheers’ Bar in each of the hotels and now they are at it again with things that they would claim NOT TO BELIEVE IN with avid marketing of pornography in the rooms through the TV sets. I have had to apologize twice recently to two of my non-member friends who asked “why my church is trying to sell them porn”.
Comment by anon — October 17, 2009 @ 11:48 am
I really didn’t think it would be so controversial to say that we really aren’t these huge mainstream successes. Sure, we can name some token people that make livings in the arts, but is my statement really so outlandish? I think the fact that we can name two authors, a few opera singers, a soap opera producer, a few athletes and business people….and that’s it…should actually prove my point.
And for the record, when I said “a single woman with a thriving mainstream career” that was within the context of my discussion of acting professionally, so I meant, of course, an actress. Because that was the interest that led me into the topic and my own thwarted dream.
I think what everyone is saying about how damaging those quotes are are true, and I don’t think Mormon’s are alone in the dilemma (love the Fight Club quote) but I do think we have a special corner on the market after being fed a heaping tub of millennial zeal and sent out into the world with these Patriarchal blessings promising us all these great things.
I guess my individual struggle right now is how much longer do I try for what I felt was my calling, and when do I settle down with the fact that I’m going to have a totally normal happy life?
Comment by Reese Dixon — October 17, 2009 @ 12:21 pm
Hi, Natalie, I just caught your invitation above. I blush, thank you! Back atcha.
Hi, Moniker! I really think you’re onto something here, and I’ve puzzled over this for years. I’m trying to put this into words… How does my LDS culture hold me back as an artist? And what can I do about it?
And I think you’re hinting at the answer, at least part of it. Mormon culture tends to overemphasize happiness and righteousness at the expense of less comfortable and ‘uplifting’ themes. This has its benefits, but it leaves a lot of human terrain unmapped.
And it’s not just unhappiness. Almost all the defensive or contractive parts of our soul are stigmatized and ignored (except to post a big DO NOT ENTER sign).
These voices of denial and positive-only thinking say, if you’re unhappy, maybe you’re unrighteous. If you’re angry, maybe you haven’t prayed enough. If you’re lonely, maybe it’s your fault.
Let’s call it the White Organza Curtain. The Mormon artists I admire (such as the band Low) have somehow managed to pierce the White Tulle Curtain and map the difficult mountains and valleys on the other side.
Comment by a man Zed — October 17, 2009 @ 12:46 pm
Yes yes yes, monikerchallenged, lorain, a man Zed! I’ve often felt the exact same thing. My degree is in film production and I was drawn to experimental films and those kind of movies that are hell to sit through and show at the cinematheque. Anyway, I have often felt that being LDS deprives one of the angst and pain an artist is almost required to have to produce certain kinds of art, perhaps even reach that archetypal pain that is within us all. As a Mormon, an active one, I think we either don’t have the same level of confusion that much of the world has or we are acculturated (wrong word, but I can’t think of the better one) to brush away these kinds of feelings. Being “dark” isn’t really an option! And maybe it;s necessary to have a little of that darkness to draw from when acting, making films, painting, singing, or writing poetry. Just a thought…
Comment by meems — October 17, 2009 @ 12:55 pm
Moniker, on the envies!–Oh, I don’t feel enviable most of the time. I’m condemned to freelancing. If my husband didn’t have partner/spouse healthcare from Occidental College, I’d be sunk. And since we got our first mortgage, I work two jobs (both freelance) and struggle to divide my attentions adequately between work and the household, 1 husband, 2 dogs, 21 fish, 50 orchids, and hundreds of cactus and succulents. Not to mention my own health.
And no kids! My hats off to those of you with kids! I bow down low before you. (Unless you’re a jerk. Then no bowing for you.)
For a few years, I thought I was destined for a major, international career… Some indicators pointed in that direction, but not all. Then you make a few choices — some of them wrong — and some other choices are made for you. And suddenly you’re not on the same track you dreamed of.
[putting down the littlest violin and wiping away a tiny tear] I think disappointment is an inescapable part of the human condition (especially in America, where we’re sold the myth of limitless upward mobility).
What can we do, then? Like the sage says, “Be well, do good work, and keep in touch.”
Comment by a man Zed — October 17, 2009 @ 1:06 pm
I remember reading in Viktor E. Frankl’s book that the question “What is the meaning of Life?” is a question that life asks us, not a question we ask life. I think the same is true of God. I really don’t think he has planed out the life of anyone (there may be a very few exceptions but not many.)
And maybe you’ve discussed this in this forum before (sorry if this is repeat for anyone.) But while I was cleaning out some old papers I ran across this memo that the First Presidency sent out to church leaders on February 25, 2008. It doesn’t address the exact statement you (we) were told, but it address the general type:
[Formatting in original]
I can remember hearing quotes From President Kimble similar to what you where saying, but what he said (when read in context) was that church members should pursue the Arts so that they can be leaders in them. I think he may have worded it along the lines of, “I can see the day when…” The path to success in any endeavor is the same for everyone: hard work, dedication, sometimes talent and often luck. Unfortunately there are many who subscribe to a “magical theory” of the gospel that says the ordinary rules don’t apply to us because we’re special.
Comment by Chris — October 17, 2009 @ 1:12 pm
Yup, Zed. You’re definitely invited to join my virtual plural marriage.
Comment by Lorian — October 17, 2009 @ 1:15 pm
Moniker, Reese–And failure to map life’s dark or harsh terrain–this is more than just artistic malaise or mediocrity. It can mean life or death.
I can’t be sure, but I believe that if my Mom had a better map of these places, she might have adjusted to my Dad’s affair without collapsing into despair, depression, then psychosis–and finally long months of catatonia. Year after year for 7 years. (She’s doing much better now.)
Maybe. Who can know? But I do think depicting the full range of life–glorious, mundane, and terrible–helps us navigate the rocky shoals and keep our little ship aright.
Comment by a man Zed — October 17, 2009 @ 1:34 pm
The main issue here is do we simply look at this life as something to get through as quickly as possible (to get to our ‘Real’ life on the other side), or do we attempt to make something of ourselves while we are here?
I have never been able to live just for the other side, because I am not at all convinced that anybody (including the prophets) had a clue what it is really going to be like. Also, a large number of leaders, and other prominent figures in the church have been seriously wanting and they really don’t make me feel closer to God or to anything that looks that appealing. I think of Tom Sawyers statement that if dogs didn’t go to heaven, he was not sure he wanted to go either.
All this having been said, I have very much believed the following scripture:
“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.” Matt 6:33
So I lived my life with things like serving a mission, getting married and living modestly as my first goals, and low and behold, circumstances have given me some wonderful opportunities to become involved with the heart of the art world, publish my own photography internationally, be active in mainstream political causes, (as a democrat) and now I am, with the help of friends in Hollywood and some downright awesome direct inspiration from God, writing a book and screenplay to be released next year.
I am not sure that God really wants us to give up our dreams or live as bees in a hive. I think he just wants us to be prepared to sacrifice all for the good of the Kingdom, and that if we are willing to, he will ultimately help us to have all of our hearts true desires.
Perhaps God is the greatest Humanist of all.
Comment by anon — October 17, 2009 @ 1:54 pm
I feel like, at this time in my life, my mission is to raise my boys. I think I’m a pretty good mom.
I also think that my mission (the message I get from my patriarchal blessing) is to be involved in my community. Being a stay at home mom gives me the freedom to do that.
Later I hope my mission will be to work as a family therapist.
I’m not sure how I or my parents did it, but I’ve never felt restricted in what I could do. I’ve never felt weighed down my expectations. I’ve always felt that Heavenly Father wants me to be the best me I can be, and that means I find what makes me happy and where I can help others. I think I have views and interests that are very unique when compared to my neighbors (although there are many things we have in common) and I have only once felt concerned that my different views were not okay (with prop 8, and thankfully a lot of prayer and a really good bishop helped me mostly come to terms with that).
Comment by Alliegator — October 17, 2009 @ 2:58 pm
I love comment #61. I think it is right on.
Comment by Stephanie — October 17, 2009 @ 3:41 pm
Yes yes yes! You guys get me!
Way to make a splash here, Zed. You may be rivaling CrazyWomanCreek for the title of most instantly beloved commenter.
I totally love what everyone is saying about mining the dark side for great art, and how we’re really not supposed to have a dark side, having the great plan of happiness and all. RebeccaJ wrote a simply beautiful post about grieving for her mother that really illustrates this perfectly.
I also think there may be something to the questioning nature of great art - striving to know the mysteries of the universe - that contradicts us Mormons with our “I know the church is true.” mindset.
Zed, I love what you said about the consequences of refusing to address the darkness of this mortal coil. I think we do ourselves and each other great spiritual violence when we fake that life is splendid and beautiful all the time. When we pretend that life can be perfect if only we are […….] enough, that is incredibly damaging to internalize.
Comment by Reese Dixon — October 17, 2009 @ 3:49 pm
Reese, in all sincerity (and not trying to be offensive), what was it that made you feel that being an actress was a calling from the Lord? In the OP, you said that you thought for sure and believed you were, but could it be your own strong desire? Not that you shouldn’t follow your desire and interest, but I am wondering if it truly was a calling from the Lord or something you love and want so bad that you thought as a teen that it must be a calling from the Lord. Make sense?
Comment by Stephanie — October 17, 2009 @ 3:51 pm
I guess what I am saying is that in answer to this question:
Relax! Work out your salvation and enjoy using your talents and don’t stress about something that may have been a strong desire based on a “prophecy” that probably was mischaracterized.
Comment by Stephanie — October 17, 2009 @ 4:01 pm
re: 60 a man Zed said: “And failure to map life’s dark or harsh terrain–this is more than just artistic malaise or mediocrity. It can mean life or death.”
How does it go? “Happy are those who know what sorrow means for they will be given courage and comfort.”
If it’s true (is it?) that the art of acting is the ability to resonate to the emotions of the moment, and if it’s true (is it?) that a visual artist has the ability capture a moment in time and convey on it’s canvas a depth and range of perception whatever the subject matter, THEN, it seems to me that some experience with angst does teach a piece of the human condition valuable to both endeavors. Beyond that, however, I think we might venture onto thin ice to therefore
conclude that to be good, art must be edgy, or that to be good at it, the artist must suffer. Further, deprivation, sorrow, pain, feelings of hopelessness or inadequacy can be learning experiences no doubt, but not all of them are necessarily positive.
The question of how one knows when they find their mortal calling, is troubling to me. We live so long, we pass through so many stages, we learn from so many experiences, we HAVE SO MANY LIVES on earth. And, we HARDLY EVER can be just one thing - the artist, the actor, whatever. We’ve all always got our day jobs taking more or less of our time and attention all the time. And, some of the time (though not all of it), the day job IS our mortal calling. We know that and so place all those other dreams and desires, or affinities, or talents onto a lower shelf. Doesn’t mean we are throwing them away. We are just plain doomed to multi-processing, so we pull out different pieces of ourselves as we may. You know, I think the fear that
life will pass us by is often overrated. There’s actually quite a lot of hours in a life. What doesn’t work now, might well turn out to be the exact right thing later.
As others have noted, being “blessed with success to show the world the truth.”, might not exactly mean blessed with success as defined by a particular popular cultures view of what is best. And, though a testimony may be held life long, it’s ok for mortal callings to be temporal (temporary).
And, one might be blessed with success by finding opportunities to exercise God’s gifts of talent in the most unlikely places. California is not the only place where actors might find a place to work their craft. And, even if success means being the ‘big fish” in the pond, (nothing wrong with that either), ya know you can always adjust the size of the pond to achieve the objective…
Comment by Betty Jo — October 17, 2009 @ 4:11 pm
Or, maybe your calling is to share your talents, but your success is measured differently than what you assumed it would be.
Comment by Stephanie — October 17, 2009 @ 4:20 pm
Oh Steph, you’ve got me exactly. Back then I felt SO DANG SURE that I had received a witness of what my future held. And it wasn’t an isolated witness. But as I’ve copped to, young, stars in my eyes, overly earnest, buying into all that millennial propaganda ….it’s hard for me to look back on that youthful conviction with the same faith. Maybe it totally was just something I really wanted. Maybe it wasn’t. I guess that’s always the problem with personal revelation, isn’t it? It’s hard to get a clear answer when it’s something we really really want.
Comment by Reese Dixon — October 17, 2009 @ 4:22 pm
#16 and anyone else looking for AWESOME music:
I LOVE LOW! They are always on my top 5 list. And I’m seriously considering naming my first daughter Mimi. That’s how much I love Low. They are incredible. When I feel like being a Mormon woman is like subscribing to mediocrity, I just think of LOW and they inspire me. Alan and Mimi are Mormon, the bassist isn’t, and no, they don’t sound like they came off of an EFY CD.
Comment by Motion de Smiths — October 17, 2009 @ 4:56 pm
Virtually nobody is universally “famous”. There are whole areas of the world where Jesus is unheard of for example. Most Christians couldn’t tell you three things about Buddah or Mohammad. Whether we are talking religion, visual arts, writing, sports, politics, business, popular culture, etc. etc., they are each their own little world. There have been many famous Mormons if you open it up to people who are well known by others who care about the same things. No one here has mentioned Shannon Hale or even bigger (at least where I come from) Laurel Thatcher Ulrich. She won a Pulitzer Prize in 1991 (I think) and she was just awarded another big time prize as presently reported on the T&S sidebar today. She is not only a lifetime active member of the Church (Gospel Doctrine teacher, RS president among other callings) and the mother of a large and successful family besides. AND she is the source for “Well behaved women seldom make history.” I think she qualifies on all counts.
Comment by Marjorie Conder — October 17, 2009 @ 5:14 pm
It looks like my two word comment got caught in moderation. Here it is again: Very true. (Directed toward Reese #70)
Comment by Stephanie — October 17, 2009 @ 5:52 pm
I wrote about LDS writers and inability to address evil a few years ago at T&S. I called it “the Iago problem” — LDS culture discourages a mindset that is capable of creating an Iago, and very often great work requires great, believable, powerful dark images and beautiful, convincing evil.
Comment by Kaimi — October 18, 2009 @ 1:16 am
britt, your comment (12), though meant for Reese, made me feel a little better tonight. thank you! ♥
i’ve kind of resigned myself to the idea that i’ll probably have to wait till the next life to be marvelous…i’ve got my hands full just making sense of my past and figuring out my present in this one. but then again, who knows?! i could be on the cusp of an unknown breakthrough into fantastic (when glory will start trailing from my feet as i go…)
Comment by blue — October 18, 2009 @ 2:00 am
here’s a site that lists lots of mormons who’ve achieved a reasonable level of fame in different arenas. there really are a lot of people who are known at least in the USA. but i think the impact we have on the world is best described in this post on Segullah today. I want to be a sister brown. that’d be my idea of a successful life, an d a legacy worth leaving. it also seems a little more likely than world fame. (and let’s be honest, world fame has SO MANY drawbacks!!!)
♥
PS: lorian, how do you make the laughing face? i know a lot of them, but not that one.
Comment by blue — October 18, 2009 @ 2:18 am
Reese- I think the problem lies in that you are still believing platitudes spouted by a seminary teacher however many odd years ago. Not that said platitudes have not come true.
As you said yourself, its just fluff that self-proclaimed lds intellectuals like to spew out into the atmosphere, and unfortunately, a high number of these men are seminary teachers! lol.
That being said, there are plenty of LDS people who are “famous” for their talents, but perhaps not so much for being Mormon. Either way, I dont really think it matters much.
Comment by anon — October 18, 2009 @ 4:07 am
Re #16: While it’s definitely true that Dustn Lance Black is not “chopped liver”, he’s also quite vocally ex-Mormon.
Comment by Nonanestonite — October 18, 2009 @ 5:54 am
I do think we have a special corner on the market after being fed a heaping tub of millennial zeal and sent out into the world with these Patriarchal blessings promising us all these great things.
This isn’t true. Mormons are blessed in many ways, but we do not have any special corner in any particular market. Mormons are not meant to be famous and celebrated just because of the restored gospel.
I sympathize with having a very certain teenage belief shaken, but I think it should be shaken because it simply isn’t true. It is an ethnocentric myth, and it isn’t true doctrine.
It is dangerous for those who believe it because of the sense of entitlement it engenders. There’s no easy path to any kind of glory, and being on the path to eternal salvation doesn’t give any a leg up on the path to earthly fame.
Comment by Katie P. — October 18, 2009 @ 7:58 am
Agreed re: 79.
I don’t know where that quote in the OP about the choice generation comes from, but I think it’s false doctrine. What’s the scriptural precedence for God caring about worldly achievements?
Comment by Emily U — October 18, 2009 @ 8:26 am
Emily and Katie, you might well be right, but if it is being commonly taught to young people in the course of their formal learning in YM, YW and Seminary, then that would seem to be a serious issue. It is apparently influencing how many Mormon people interact with society at large and how they view themselves.
There was a recent thread about why so many LDS youth end up leaving the church. I doubt that this is the sole reason, but I think it touches on the reasons so many young people leave their church of origin. The expectations that are created in young people by their parents, sunday school teachers, youth leaders, of how the world should be, how they will be viewed by the world (that paranoid persecution complex that so many conservative religious people have — they will hate us and persecute us because we are Christians!!! They will throw us to the LIONS!!!!), plus the expectation that we must ALWAYS be “good witnesses and good examples” to the rest of the world of what our religion “is like,” can be overwhelming to a young person.
We are raised on a diet of, “Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary, the devil, roars about like a ravening lion, seeking whom he may devour…” and messages like (in my A/G background), “If you fail to share the Gospel with EVERYONE you meet, and they fail to accept Christ and perish for eternity, God will require their blood at your hands. God will hold YOU responsible for their sins. If you have shared the Gospel with them and still they reject it, then their blood is upon their own head.” And then add to that, “Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your father which is in heaven,” which is generally interpreted as, “Be perfect in every way and never let ‘em see you sweat.”
These are some pretty intense messages for kids to deal with. It’s a lot of responsibility to have the sins of the world on your shoulders, the blood of your unconverted brother on your hands, a constant sober eye out for the devil sneeking up to get you, and a big ol’ “I’m-a-Christian-and-I’m-so-happy” constantly plastered across your face. The level of guilt induced can be absolutely overwhelming (speaking from personal experience, at least).
What a relief when you finally leave home and go to college (assuming you don’t go to the college funded by your denomination, which is set up, in part, to make sure that when you leave home and go to college, you are kept in the same intensity of atmosphere as you were in your parents’ home), and find that you can experiment a bit with other ways of interacting with the world. And you may even find that there are other religious traditions which meet your needs for spirituality and communion with the Divine Being, without the intensity of guilt and angst you experienced in your church of origin (again, speaking from personal experience).
The catch, though, is that when the Bible says, “Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it” (yeah, I’ve got a million of ‘em, memorize and constantly at my fingertips, just like y’all — hazard of the upbringing), it is not so much stating a spiritual principle as a psychological one. The messages which we teach our children, whether good or bad, true or misguided, become engraved upon those sensitive, malleable little minds in a way in which NO message ever affects an adult mind. What we teach them when they are small WILL stay with them, possibly in ways we never intended or thought it would, all of their lives — may haunt them with fear, with self-loathing, with anxiety, with disappointment in themselves because they can never measure up to those unrealistic standards we set before them.
We MAY stay in the church of our youth because our parents so fully acclimated us to it. We may not. But it will stay inside of us, sometimes to comfort, but other times to torture and to provoke anger in us that someone had the audacity to teach those things to a little child. I, for instance, was taught by a Sunday School teacher I had between 3rd and 5th grade, that no one was a Christian except those in the Assembly of God Church (and possibly the Four Square Gospel Church, which is similar, and maybe, just maybe, some of the Baptist because they are fundamentlists, even though they reject the gift of the Holy Spirit, ya know…), and that my Lutheran grandparents were going to go to hell because they recited the same empty praers every week instead of praying in their own words, and because rote confessions of sin, no matter how well-intended, were not heard by God and would not evoke God’s forgiveness of sin. I was taught by this same Sunday School teacher that marrying a black person was wrong in God’s eyes because black people are like animals.
There are some egregious messages, some blatantly so, and others more subtle, that are sometimes delivered to our children in the context of “religious training” and which, if the cognitive dissonance between those messages and their own eventual experience of the world as young adults becomes too great, too loud, to screechingly, hideously out-of-tune, may lead them to renounce their religious upbringing entirely, and find something which feels to them healthier and better and cleaner and closer to God (assuming they can still maintain a belief in God after all of that).
Comment by Lorian — October 18, 2009 @ 10:25 am
Yes Lorian, totally.
The lofty goals of some of our former leaders, and the intensity with which that was pounded into my head, may very well be false doctrine, but it’s a false doctrine that is related to things that we actually do believe. Which makes it a lot more complicated than just ignoring those youthful teachings.
Sure, maybe it was silly of me to believe the people that said Mormons were the best and the brightest to the exclusion of every other group, but that’s only a couple steps further than “The one true church” and “God’s covenant people”
Katie, what I meant by us having a special corner on the market of optimistic expectations was that, although it’s totally an American thing to believe that we all have limitless potential, we Mormon’s bring our own special perspective to it from our pioneer heritage and generations of talk about the strength of our generation, the fight against good and evil, the last days….yadda yadda yadda. I agree, it doesn’t hold up upon close scrutiny, but it’s there in our DNA. We are a striving people. We have the plan of happiness, we should be the best homemakers and all that jazz.
So if you were like me and bought into all that, sure it can be damaging because of the excesses that were inflicted upon me and which I lapped up, but it’s not like it just came out of nowhere from some rogue YW advisor. It’s part of a long Christian, and a long Mormon tradition.
Comment by Reese Dixon — October 18, 2009 @ 12:48 pm
I think there’s a larger issue of general unfulfilled expectations. What do you do when you thought your life would be one way, and it turns out to be something different? How do you deal with the disappointment? Do you spend a lot of time worrying about what might have been, or throw yourself into the life you have? These are some of the things I’ve been pondering as I deal with disappointments.
Comment by Stephanie — October 18, 2009 @ 2:24 pm
One of the difficulties we have as women in the LDS church is that there are few female role models, who are knowledgeable and competent on their own terms.
That trend in our society is changing and I hope it has a positive influence on how women are valued in our religion.
As women become more accomplished, they will tend to put their energies into groups and companies that respect and honor their skills. Microsoft is one of those companies.
We see that in our world of business, especially in technology.
Here is one to watch. She is a Group Project Manager at Microsoft, Charlotte Jones, was will be on hand to walk the audience through all Windows 7’s hottest features on the first hour of The Today Show on Thursday, 10/22/09.
She is educated, married, accomplished and her first child is due in March. She is also my niece.
Comment by Jo — October 18, 2009 @ 3:24 pm
Blue..I’m glad.
Is it possible Reese that you got a piece of direction and it lead you the right way and you assumed that the path would continue in a certain direction, when in reality God had a different plan? God told you what you needed to know and you assumed that it meant something different than what it meant? Could it be the timing is off?
I’ve done too much assuming in that manner, so I’m trying to let my mission unfold with a little more patience. rats
Comment by britt — October 18, 2009 @ 5:00 pm
I have not read all 85 comments, but I just wanted to say this. I am 61 years old. When I was a teenager, the leaders of the church were saying the same sorts of things about my generation.
Comment by Mary — October 18, 2009 @ 9:16 pm
Thanks, #72. You make a good point. Let me add Elna Baker to your list — just published a memoir called The New York Regional Mormon Single Adult Halloween Dance, which is making much deeper inroads into the non-LDS community than it is into the LDS. Check it out!
Comment by Cate — October 19, 2009 @ 8:25 am
Kaimi writes in 74:
I like very much your framing of the Iago problem. I guess for me a worse problem is when our Iago is more Verdi’s villain than Shakespeare’s—operatic and black-or-white, a cartoon Hitler rather than a well-shaded J. Edgar Hoover or Richard Nixon.
(I was going to say this treatment of evil is Manichaean, but then I found this article defending the moral sophistication of the historical Manichees.)
Also we often fail to map out the ‘evils’ which are a natural part of life. Also the ‘evils’ which well-meaning people do. And we sometimes do evil while just knowing —beyond a shadow of a doubt—that we are doing righteousness.
Certainty is a dangerous feeling. And the evil we should fear most is the evil we ourselves are capable of doing, unwittingly.
Nonanestonite writes:
Quite right. I think I mentioned I was whisking up both observants and diaspora in my butterfly net.
Comment by a man Zed — October 19, 2009 @ 3:01 pm
I love this site. I always read your beginnings new blog because it has been INVALUABLE in my calling (laurel advisor) and this site… I love it!
I think we are twins of a sort- though I am a convert of 5 little years, I am in YW like you, I share many of your views, I surround myself by others than LDS people, AND… I am a professor too.. I teach Biology.
It is very nice to have happened on this link from your YW site!
Comment by Crystal — October 26, 2009 @ 10:19 pm
“Living in DC, it seems to me that LDS are over-represented in the Department of Justice, FBI, CIA, and such. Mormons being good in fields that require a clean background and are all about law and order - now THAT makes sense to me.” Comment 44 by Katie P.
I live in a high-military-density area (the “other” Washington), and I’ve noticed the same thing. There are many LDS high leaders in the military and in civilian government jobs in this area. MANY more than the minority percentage of LDS in the United States would indicate. And on the local leadership level, also. My own best friend is a very active member of the church and is a successful public prosecutor with a young family. And honestly, those foundational levels of leadership are the ones that should really have the most effect on the world. If we are more influenced by the famous in an imaginary world than by the real people who create the building blocks for our real society, then there is something wrong with us. And there IS something wrong with us, as the statistics of Hollywood and music-worship indicate.
As faithful members, is there something to the idea that instead of changing the world through being the famous movie star, we should change the world by deciding by our viewing habits who gets to be the famous movie star or next Oscar film? Have we each done our part in deciding which ideas and morals get to stay and which fail in the box office and have to leave our world? I’m ashamed to admit that my entertainment dollars have not always gone to entertainment that I’d be proud to tell the Father I supported. Maybe there are not as many LDS famous people in entertainment because we are not yet doing enough to support the professional environment where they can succeed in their careers and the gospel at the same time.
I think that many of you have hit it on the nose: There is more than enough pain, anguish, and disappointment in this world even when we are plenty righteous enough, to have to worry about even more unrealistic expectations set upon us by a culture that is a byproduct of well-meaning people trying to explain the simple gospel truths into complicated “ah-hah” explanations of distractions that don’t really matter.
As a young person I never really expected to be famous or powerful, and had always viewed myself as a realist who has two feet firmly on the ground. However, I never truly anticipated how bad it could really get. Or how much pain and unexpected disappointment one person can really experience. Somehow, I always felt that those things happened to other people; not to me! I didn’t realize I even had that mentality until I refused to believe the details of my own life.
It is SO SO important that our self-esteems be based simply on the fact that we are children of God (yes, just like everyone in the world, lds or not), and he loves us. Any other reason to value ourselves comes from the world and will fail us. We ARE extremely special, but not more special than the next person. God is no respecter of persons, so any time we hear comparisons and levels of “specialness” at church, it is not His doctrine.
But I ramble. I’ve really enjoyed your blog, Reese, and the comments of all of you other readers.
(sorry that I kind of wandered around the topic instead of more distinctly hitting it right on the nail head)
Comment by Mishqueen — November 11, 2009 @ 11:15 pm
Did you see this Reese?
http://blog.mormonletters.org/post/2009/11/30/The-Dawning-of-a-Brighter-Day.aspx#continue
Comment by crazywomancreek — December 4, 2009 @ 8:50 pm